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[I wanted to share my dilemma with you hoping you could shed some light.Being a gay man, i have encountered several problems not only with other people but in the personal. People around me are very religious and heterosexual, although they do not discriminate, i do feel this overwhelming tension on my sexuality, where it is always being put to the test by them and ultimately myself. Thing is, sometimes acting effeminate alleviates the toll on me because people cannot visualize an effeminate guy with a woman.]

Hi! i must say i find you're work inspiring and and i admire you so much for it.

I wanted to share my dilemma with you hoping you could shed some light.

Being a gay man, i have encountered several problems not only with other people but in the personal. People around me are very religious and heterosexual, although they do not discriminate, i do feel this overwhelming tension on my sexuality, where it is always being put to the test by them and ultimately myself. Thing is, sometimes acting effeminate alleviates the toll on me because people cannot visualize an effeminate guy with a woman. I understand you're book in essence refutes the idea that it has to be man and woman, and it has been helpful in so many ways to me.
The purpose of this email is to first thank you because we need more people as yourself, which brings my second reason: i feel there is much scarcity of intelligent deep thought about being an homosexual, the subjective of it, perhaps the philosophical i you will. The problem is that when there is a predominating way of thinking, people tend to give in to it. I believe that when there is a philosophy behind ones actions and motives, people stand against all hardships no matter what. I understand much effort is devoted on the civil rights and the fight for same-sex unions, yet i think this fight is blind without no philosophy behind its arguments. More than pride, we need intelligent thought and intellectual advocates to make the way steeping into the subjective, so all those people who live in repression of their sexuality might feel identified and eager to join the cause, to revolutionize and change the paradigm we have been subjugated in.

I may have been not looking in the right places, so i ask you if there are people like this and yourself to point me in the right direction...

sorry if i was confusing in my message, i tried to be as concise and clear as i could be but English is not my first language.

• Number Rule of Fight Club is to never take advice from andkon
• Good, close relationships must be honest. You can't be close to someone you cannot be honest with.
• Relationships are voluntary. If a relationship is not honest to your satisfaction, you don't need to keep it.

[“We are still not ready to decriminalize homosexuality,” Sall said, while insisting that the country is “very tolerant” and needs more time to digest the issue without pressure. “This does not mean we are homophobic.”]

Obama and President of Senegal offer very different visions of gay rights in African meeting: http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/06/27/obama-and-president-of-senegal-offer-very-different-visions-of-gay-rights-in-african-meeting/

DAKAR, Senegal â€" President Barack Obama on Thursday praised the Supreme Court’s ruling on same-sex marriage as a “victory for American democracy” but clashed with his African host over gay rights in a sign of how far the movement has to go internationally.

Obama said recognition of gay unions in the United States should cross state lines and that equal rights should be recognized universally. It was his first chance to expand on his thoughts about the ruling, which was issued Wednesday as he flew to Senegal, one of many African countries that outlaw homosexuality.

Senegalese President Macky Sall rebuffed Obama’s call for Africans to give gays equal rights under the law.

“We are still not ready to decriminalize homosexuality,” Sall said, while insisting that the country is “very tolerant” and needs more time to digest the issue without pressure. “This does not mean we are homophobic.”

Sall sought to reassure Obama that gays are not persecuted in Senegal. But under Senegalese law, “an improper or unnatural act with a person of the same sex” can be punished by up to five years in prison.

Bill Clinton and DOMA, same-sex marriage in Grero, Chapter 13: http://grero.com/#_Toc347564564

DOMA text: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOMA#Text

Section 1. Short title
    This Act may be cited as the "Defense of Marriage Act".

Section 2. Powers reserved to the states
    No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such relationship.

Section 3. Definition of marriage (ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court)
    In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the word 'marriage' means only a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife, and the word 'spouse' refers only to a person of the opposite sex who is a husband or a wife.

DOMA ruling: http://www.popehat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Windsor.pdf

Was the experiment with five monkeys, a ladder, a banana and a water spray conducted? (includes illustration waved about in video)




Peace Among the Primates by Robert M. Sapolsky (a slightly longer version entitled A Natural History of Peace)

Two classic studies have shown that primates are somewhat independent from their “natures.” In the early 1970s, a highly respected primatologist named Hans Kummer was working in a region of Ethiopia containing two species of baboons with markedly different social systems. Savanna baboons live in large troops, with plenty of adult females and males. Hamadryas baboons, in contrast, have a more complex and quite different multilevel society. When confronted with a threatening male, the females of the two species react differently: A hamadryas baboon placates the male by approaching him, whereas a savanna baboon can only run away if she wants to avoid injury.

Kummer conducted a simple experiment, trapping an adult female savanna baboon and releasing her into a hamadryas troop and trapping an adult female hamadryas and releasing her into a savanna troop. The females who were dropped in among a different species initially carried out their species-typical behavior, a major faux pas in the new neighborhood. But gradually, they absorbed the new rules. How long did this learning take? About an hour. In other words, millennia of genetic differences separating the two species, a lifetime of experience with a crucial social rule for each femaleâ€"and a miniscule amount of time to reverse course completely.

The second experiment was set up by Frans de Waal of Emory University and his student Denise Johanowicz in the early 1990s, working with two macaque monkey species. By any human standards, male rhesus macaques are unappealing animals. Their hierarchies are rigid, those at the top seize a disproportionate share of the spoils, they enforce this inequity with ferocious aggression, and they rarely reconcile after fights. In contrast, male stump tail macaques, which share almost all of their genes with their rhesus macaque cousins, display much less aggression, looser hierarchies, more egalitarianism, and more behaviors that promote group cohesion.

Working with captive primates, de Waal and Johanowicz created a mixed-sex social group of juvenile macaques, combining rhesus and stump tails together. Remarkably, instead of the rhesus macaques bullying the stump tails, over the course of a few months the rhesus males adopted the stump tails’ social style, eventually even matching the stump tails’ high rates of reconciliatory behavior. It so happens, moreover, that stump tails and rhesus macaques use different gestures when reconciling. The rhesus macaques in the study did not start using the stump tails’ reconciliatory gestures, but rather increased the incidence of their own species-typical gestures. In other words, they were not merely imitating the stump tails’ behavior; they were incorporating the concept of frequent reconciliation into their own social practices. Finally, when the newly warm-and-fuzzy rhesus macaques were returned to a larger, all-rhesus group, their new behavioral style persisted.

The Baboon Troop that Mellowed Out After the Alpha Males Died: more on the garbage eating baboons with the alpha males.

Adolf Brand and early 20th century Germany review in video 0027: http://grero.com/forum/index.php?topic=55.0

Shaping The Homosexual Image: the Effects Of The Eulenburg Affair On The Early German Homosexual Rights Movements by Jessica Bulter: http://academia.edu/903465/Shaping_the_Homosexual_Image_The_Effects_of_the_Eulenburg_Affair_on_the_Early_German_Homosexual_Rights_Movement (or see attachment doc below)

Third Sex or Self-Owners?: The political use of biological vs. cultural models of homosexuality by Rowan Savage: http://academia.edu/1332664/Third_Sex_or_Self-Owners_The_political_use_of_biological_vs._cultural_models_of_homosexuality (or see attachment doc below)

The invisible bisexual man by Tracy Clark-Flory: http://www.salon.com/2011/08/28/bisexuality_2/

Simon, a 26-year-old living in Brooklyn, N.Y., tells me, “Whenever, say, some prominent heterosexually married male public figure has a same-sex affair, literally everyone rolls their eyes at the ‘closeted homosexual,’” he says. “I’m not sure I remember ever hearing someone seriously entertain the possibility that the philanderer was bisexual.” Bisexuals are more visible than ever, but our cultural default, the shortcut we take to understand a person, is still: gay or straight?

Even without any genuine questions about their identity, many bisexual men end up choosing a different label, depending on the circumstances. “I am either gay or heterosexual dependent upon the company I keep,” says 49-year-old Ed. Some men identify as gay when they’re dating a man and straight when they’re dating a woman â€" it’s easier to go along with people’s assumptions than it is to detail the subtle nuances of one’s attractions.

... but several men in their 20s said that straight women were turned off by it. “I encounter lots of women who totally rule out relationships with men who’ve slept with men,” says Simon. “It seems like straight women attach an ‘ick’ factor to bisexual men that straight men don’t attach to bisexual women.”

Russian anti-gay bill passes, protesters detained: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57588738/russian-anti-gay-bill-passes-protesters-detained/

A bill that stigmatizes Russia's gay community and bans the distribution of information about homosexuality to children was overwhelmingly approved by the lower house of parliament Tuesday.

More than two dozen protesters were attacked by anti-gay activists and then detained by police, hours before the State Duma approved the Kremlin-backed legislation in a 436-0 vote.

The bill banning "propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations" still needs to be passed by the appointed upper house and signed into law by President Vladimir Putin, but neither step is in doubt.

Dustin Zito context, denying porno past (or see Grero the book): http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/04/27/the-real-worlds-dustin-zito-on-his-gay-porn-past.html

Dustin Zito full video referenced in above video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHQvJP_X-H4

"Born Eunuchs" Home Page and Library: http://www.well.com/user/aquarius/

Almost all people are bisexual by nature, although most people choose, or are conditioned, to limit themselves to the opposite sex. Thus, for almost all so-called "straight" people, their sexual identity is defined by their behavior, and is subject to influence or change. In fact, in the ancient world, most people were actively bisexual in their behavior at different times in their lives.

However, as a minority, gays differ by nature from the majority -- not in our attraction to the same sex, but only in our physical lack of response to the opposite sex. Being naturally impotent for procreative sex, innately gay men were referred to in the ancient world as "born eunuchs" or just "eunuchs." Meanwhile, women who innately lacked response to men were seen as a particular kind of "virgins."

[Monogamy/Polygamy, Traditional Masculinity, New Sexual Orientation, Penis Drawings, Bromance:]

(Some video lag and sound issues but otherwise okay.)

Monogamy/Polygamy, Traditional Masculinity, New Sexual Orientation, Penis Drawings, Bromance:




Questions from a reader:

Firstly, what is your position on monogamy/polygamy? I assume you're pro polygamy, but I was particularly interested in what you think of 'traditional' monogamy.

I was also wondering what you think falls under the category of 'masculine'. I think if someone is willing to deconstruct sexuality to the point of removing societies goal posts (hetero/homo), surely something just as traditional (masculinity) would receive the same treatment? I don't really have an opinion on what masculine and feminine is or should be, but my instinct tells me it's largely a physical attribute, backed up by intellect, and sometimes 'being a gentleman' or what I call 'not being a colossal cunt'.

If society were to remove the two 'polar opposites' homo/hetero, what would you replace them with? It could just be my shocking memory, but you didn't seem to really put your foot down on this. You only described what you think it's not.

On a side note, that would explain why every high school in western civilization is plagued by drawings of penis' done by young boys. My high school science teacher always pointed out just how stupid it was, but never really put forward a theory, though that's no surprise.

On another side note, it explains the rise of the bromance bordering on the homosexual. In an episode of Scrubs, the bromance between JD and Turk when they 'low five' by bumping crotches in public. They also sing songs about their 'guy love'.

Once again, brilliant job!

Reading on innate gender:

The Essential Difference: Male And Female Brains And The Truth About Autism by Simon Baron-Cohen: http://www.amazon.com/The-Essential-Difference-Female-Brains/dp/046500556X

Delusions of Gender: How Our Minds, Society, and Neurosexism Create Difference by Cordelia Fine (rebuts the above book): http://www.amazon.com/Delusions-Gender-Society-Neurosexism-Difference/dp/0393340244

Baron-Cohen responds to Cordelia Fine: http://issuu.com/thepsychologist/docs/psy1110/15

Brain Gender by Melissa Hines (critical of innate gender): http://www.amazon.com/Brain-Gender-Melissa-Hines/dp/0195188365

Pink Brain, Blue Brain: How Small Differences Grow Into Troublesome Gaps by Lise Eliot (also critical of innate gender): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0618393110



My domestic abuse stat and an otherwise good video on the True Cycle of Violence:

Comment from Reddit:

Chapter 3 seems to suggest that, almost without exception, the mannerisms of gays are markedly feminine. And that most will self-identify, at least in some meaningful way, as a woman: 'ew no, that'd make me a lesbian'. Of course my experiences are only anecdotal in comparison, but I've rarely come across this. I know a great many gay guys who have no outwardly effeminate mannerisms, or at least not beyond a similar amount of mannerisms in straight men. I also don't know a single gay guy who identifies as more of a woman than a man, other than as a joke - they know they're gay men. As in they jokingly copy a feminine social cue - 'hey girlfriend', but if you asked them whether they'd be put in the male or female locker room, then they'd say male. Anything more than that I think is conflating transgendered with homosexuality.

This ties in with the comments in Chapter 3 of the sometimes hypocritical hatred of effeminacy by effeminate gays. But from what I understand and will continue to understand, the desire for same-sex relations may not be completely socially constructed, but effeminacy is. As an extreme example, a kid raised by wolves will not have a lisp and an effeminate walk (not that there's much wrong with those things), but they might still have same-sex tendencies.

EDIT: Further need to point out, the example of 'a Canadian show called "1 girl 5 gays"' is used. I don't know of this show, but would it be better to deduce from this that it is evidence of the media portrayal of gays, not necessarily gays themselves. In modern media, the feminine gay guy is often used as comedy relief - it's a niche that works, but it isn't necessarily reflective. I understand the book is discussing both gays themselves as well as their portrayal, but using modern media as an example of the substantive nature of homosexuals seems like it is a completely different discussion altogether. As a corollary example, I would use the pink/blue masculine/feminine example. It used to be that blue was the colour for girls, and pink (as a subset of red) was male. Society switched that, and it is now so prevalent in the public psyche that it would be difficult to switch back. But that doesn't mean that little girls have an inherent desire for pink, and little boys have an inherent desire for blue. They don't care, until society tells them they should. Same with how gays choose to act and are represented.

Anyway, interesting read, I will continue (had to make these comments while they were fresh in my mind.)

Context for "Ew, I'd feel like a lesbian." from Grero:

An effeminate ex-boyfriend of mine could flirt with women better than any other man I've seen. So I asked him why he didn't want to have sex with women. The response betrayed a feminine self-identity: "Ew, I'd feel like a lesbian." This explains the gay obsession with divas like Britney Spears, Cher, Madonna, and the like. Gay men identify with struggling women who overcome the odds because they often see themselves in a similar light. They often even use feminine pronouns amongst each other, and as much the same happened in the molly houses in the 1700's and during Ulrichs's time in 1864: "When Urnings get together, they mostly give themselves feminine nicknames; I suppose this is because they feel like women, even if only subconsciously: for example, 'Laura,' 'Georgina,' (instead of George), 'Mathilde,' 'Madonna,' 'Queen of the Night.' They also call each other 'sister,' for example, 'Sister dear.'"

A response to the author's comments on my review of 0029: Review of Reclaiming Natural Manhood:

I liked your review, but there are a few things:

- Although, you often mentioned my site as saying that most men want to have sex with other men -- that is not exactly what it says. Although, I often use the term 'sexual interest,' I am really talking about a much larger concept than just sex (sex is often the preoccupation with the gays). I'm talking about a need for intimacy (physical, sexual, romantic, etc.), love, eompanionship, etc.with another man.

In fact, this is often one point of difference between the gay's attraction for men and the straight male's attraction for men (I can't say about the greros). While the gay male's attraction for men is often shallow, superficial and promiscuous in nature, the straight male tends to bond one to one, deep and lifelong -- if they could, that is, something like the Brokeback mountains depicted. The core of what constitutes straight in your society, consists of such males, a large percentage of whom would readily have monogamous lifelong relationship with another man. Most of the rest would, under natural circumstances, tend to bond in a committed relationship with one man, while be promiscuous with women.

Those who tend to be promiscuous with men, but into deeper, committed relationships with women are the one's who are exactly similar to the gays, except that the gays often don't like women at all. This population really doesn't belong in the straight (i.e. manhood space) however, they're the ones that rule and control the western manhood space, now called 'straight' by the third genders that like men (gays).

In fact, there are two main points of difference between the gays and straights (the sexual orientation difference is not real, only imposed). In other words, there are two kinds of people that relate to a 'gay' identity, or to the entire idea of a separate identity at all. The first and foremost class of gays is those who are different on account of gender orientation, i.e., they're feminine gendered. The second class of those who insist on a gay (or any other identity) are those who maybe masculine gendered, however, their sexuality for men is promiscuous in nature, like that of the gays, especially, and this is my suspicion, that they have a promiscuous need for receptive anal sex, which makes them feel different from the straight population. They're also more open about their sexual need and don't care for down low, like the straight males.

It seems that the Greros are then part of the masculine gendered males, who are into multiple partner sex with men, rather than into deeper, especially, monogamous bonding (that involves sex) with one male. As such, they should properly be classified on the 'straight' side of the straight: lgbt divide (which is essentially, the manhood: third gender divide).

- It seems that your interpretation of the chapter on "mammalian male sexuality" is deeply influenced by what may be called as the 'heteronormative' mindset of the west. In the west, it is now widely believed that males are essentially and primarily into females (the mindset in a typical non-western society may seem similar on the facade, but as you go deeper into the men's spaces, you can feel that a different mindset prevails).

The way you said, something like, "in the wild, the alpha male who is the most powerful keeps the entire female harem to himself, forcing the other males out, who then have no option but to band together and fulfill their sexual needs with one another." It seems like 'situational homosexuality.'

The reality is quite different -- both, if you study male mammals in the wild, or if you observe human 'straight' male behaviour in non-heterosexualised men's spaces. At least, how the west explains this is based on half-truths.

The fact is that nearly all of the intense fights that we see in wild life documentaries for control of female harems, is amongst less than 20% of mammalian males. The ones who don't fight aren't meek -- they just don't care about females. But, if you assume that all males have sexuality towards females as their basic drive, then you'll need to explain the rest of the 75% or more as weaker males.

I also have problem with the manner in which western science defines the male that rules the female harem as the 'Alpha male.' This smacks of equating sexual desire for females with masculinity or machoness and is not totally true. The male that controls the male group may be much more powerful than the so-called 'Alpha male' that controls the female group. It doesn't take much power to control the females. But western science don't want to even look at that. How many documentaries can you talk of that show you how the male groups live? If they were to show that, the hollowness of the assumption that the majority of males need females will be knwon.

The fact is also that (as is clear in the case of red foxes), the males who fight for females, are not really heterosexual. They're merely looking for one night stands, enough to transfer their genes. They forget about the female after that, while their main life is spent in male spaces and in male bonds. However, the heterosexual red male fox -- who is the gay type, doesn't want to fight for females, instead, he has 'relationship' with them, for which he doesn't compete with the males at all. When the males who have fought for females have deposited their genes, this heterosexual male then quietly bonds with one of the females, and then starts a family with her, fathering over her offsprings, eventhough he is not their real father.

regards.

Awesome: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57590077-1/spill-a-lot-neverwets-ready-to-coat-your-gear/

http://rudd-o.com/archives/psychopathy

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gzLPZml9VRI?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzLPZml9VRI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXMoUu9ZE00

The tan guy on the left did straight porn; has intellectual honesty to say he's not straight.

http://www.advocate.com/comedy/2013/03/08/eddie-izzard-atheism-transgender-and-invisible-bloke-upstairs?page=full

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/06/11/elwood_indiana_rape_case_14_year_old_pregnant_victim_speaks_out_about_the.html

Anti-choicers love to wax poetic about how beautiful it is for teenage girls to "choose life," even when raped. Unfortunately, as a recent story out of Indiana shows, the reality is anything but beautiful. In the small town of Elwood, Ind., a 13-year-old girl was raped by a 17-year-old and impregnated. The victim opposes abortion, and while she briefly considered making an exception for herself in this case, she ultimately went ahead with the pregnancy. The result? She's become a target for abuse and harassment in Elwood, and the formerly outgoing young woman is now a recluse.

Slut-shaming, it's not just for the Middle East.

http://www.fediafedia.com/

[Table of Contents for Reclaiming Natural Manhood:]

I have previously replied to an email from the author of Reclaiming Natural Manhood. This is the review of the book itself:








Table of Contents for Reclaiming Natural Manhood:

1. Introduction

2. Masculinity: The Male Gender

• Social masculinity vs. natural masculinity
• Male gender roles
• Male sexual roles
• How are these roles enforced on men?
• Mechanisms of male oppression
• Other traditional mechanisms of men's oppression
• Heterosexualisation of society
• The Extreme Over-Sexualisation of the female body
• The myth of sex power
• Invisible power of women
• A short history of man's oppression
• The strategy of man's oppression
• Science
• Sexual Orientation

3. Understanding Natural Masculinity

• Sexual interest in women
• Sexual interest in men
• What is true masculinity?
• The natural sexuality of men
• Mammalian sexuality in the wild
• Captivated/ domesticated animals

4. Men and Feminity

• An important article of about the 'third gender'

5. Reclaiming and Celebrating Natural Masculinity



Ten Points of the review:

• Gender is influenced by culture, but innate gender exists
• Masculinity is not stereotypical he-man; lack of male emotions serves abusers
• Constructed social roles = softer introduction than grero
• Situational homosexuality, down low excuses
• Bromance, speedos, breaking down the wall between love of friends
• Women intrude on men's spaces, feminism
• Darwin's fallacious focus on sex
• Conflation via Chapter 10
• 7 Reasons why Sexual Orientation Concept is Flawed
• Natural Sexuality of Men: most men want men most of the time

http://www.sci-news.com/biology/article01142-giant-oarfish-video-deep-sea.html

http://bodyodd.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/07/18830190-soy-sauce-overdose-sends-man-into-coma?lite

A young man who drank a quart of soy sauce went into a coma and nearly died from an excess of salt in his body, according to a recent case report.

The 19-year-old, who drank the soy sauce after being dared by friends, is the first person known to have deliberately overdosed on such a high amount of salt and survived with no lasting neurological problems, according to the doctors in Virginia who reported his case. The case report was published online June 4 in the Journal of Emergency Medicine.

Too much salt in the blood, a condition called hypernatremia, is usually seen in people with psychiatric conditions who develop a strong appetite for the condiment, said Dr. David J. Carlberg, who treated the young man and works as an emergency medicine physician at MedStar Georgetown University Hospital in Washington, D.C.